UPDATE: Tut mir leid, aber einige der Links scheinen nicht mehr zu funktionieren. Vermutlich weil die Nachrichtenseiten ihre Beiträge nicht für immer online halten.

Ok, wie ich schon gesagt habe sammle ich christliche Pareidolie-Fälle, falsche Wahrnehmungen von Zusammenhängen die unser Gehirn aus willkürlichen Mustern erzeugt, die nichts mit den Sachen, die erkannt werden, zu tun haben. Meine Idee ist es, christliche Berichte über Jesus- und Jungrafu-Maria-Sichtungen zu analysieren. Das erste Ergebnis steht schon fest: Diese Berichte sind üblicher als ich gedacht habe. Es war nicht schwierig sie zu finden und ich habe aufgegeben weitere zu suchen, nachdem ich bei Nummer Einhundert (100 !) angekommen war. Die überragende Mehrheit ist dabei aus dem Zeitraum zwischen 2003 und heute. Ich liste sie unten in einer Tabelle auf und werde dann nächste Woche meine Analyse veröffentlichen.

Die ‚Erscheinungen’ von Jesus Christus und der Jungfrau Maria sind chronologisch absteigend sortiert, die Daten habe ich mit Monat und Jahr angegeben. Die Daten entsprechen jenen, an denen die entsprechenden Berichte in den Medien aufgekommen sind, der ursprüngliche Fund kann älter sein. Zum Beispiel ist der Klassiker, der 2004 für 28.000 Dollar verkaufte angebissene Käsetoast mit angeblichem Maria-Portrait damals schon eine Dekade alt gewesen. Da ich solche Berichte aber nicht überprüfen kann begnüge ich mich mit den Veröffentlichungsdaten. Diese können natürlich von Quelle zu Quelle etwas variieren.

Ich habe die Ereignisse im Internet zusammengesucht, besonders gute Quellen waren für den Anfang Bad Astronomy, der Angry Astronomer und Stupid Evil Bastard. Des weiteren gibt es in der englischen Wikipedia eine ausführliche Liste religoöser Pareidolie-Ereignisse. Und es gibt eine Sammlung auf yoism. Für auschließliche Jungfrau-Maria Sichtungen empfehle ich die Seite VirginMaryAgain.

Ich habe mich bemüht, Links zu Zeitungsartikeln und dergleichen hinzu zu fügen, da die ‚Sichtungen’ manchmal kaum glaubhaft erscheinen und um eurer Neugierde genüge zu tun. Manchmal gibt es aber nur noch sekundäre Quellen. Es ist teilweise sehr schwer verständlich, wie hirnverbrannt Menschen sein können und dass Ihnen ihre Lieblingsbibelfiguren in eine schmutzigen Pfanne, reflektiertem Licht, einem Kartoffelchip oder einem in die Schmutzwäsche geworfenem T-Shirt erscheinen. Da ich keine Lust habe die ganze Liste, jetzt, da ich sie habe, gleich auch noch ins Deutsche zu übersetzen bleibt sie Englisch. Für immer.
Ich sortiere die Ereignissen jeweils in einige Kategorien ein, die da wären:

  • Zunächst, in welcher Gegend sie gefunden wurden. Also entweder das Land oder, wenn es aus dem Weltrekordhalter in Sachen Christlicher Pareidolie kommt, den US-Staat.
  • Zweitens, das Material aus dem das Objekt, das Jesus oder Maria gleicht (oder besser: das bei Menschen mit einer ganz besonderen Wahrnehmung J oder VM gleicht), besteht. Das sind zum Beispiel toast, ice, rock. Wood und bark betrachte ich als zwei Materialien, ersteres ist dabei geschnittenes Holz, die Figur ist also in den Jahresringen oder einem Astknoten und letzteres ist die Rinde eines Baums. Dabei spielt häufig auch Licht und Schatten eine entscheidende Rolle bei der Pareidolie-Wahrnehmung.
  • Ich kombiniere die Materialien ferner in breitere Kategorien, wie Food (wie Toast, Pfannkuchen, Meeresfrüchte), Wood (nun alles was mit Bäumen zu tun hat), Dirt (Bilder aus Dreck und Essensresten) und einige mehr.
  • Und schließlich erwähne ich noch (meine Einschätzung) der Textur des Objekts oder der Erscheinung. Ich differenziere nur zwischen fluffy (nicht unbedingt weich, aber irgendwie bröselig, punktiert) und flowing (weicher, verschwommen oder von fließender Struktur). Fluffy ist also so etwas wie eine Scheibe Toast, ein Stein oder alles das eine raue Oberfläche hat und/oder aus eine Vielzahl von kleinen Flächen unterschiedlicher Farbe oder Helligkeit besteht. Im Gegensatz dazu heißt flowing, dass der Ursprung von fließenden Flüssigkeiten und ihren Ablagerungen herrührt oder die Erscheinung aus größeren, zusammenhängenderen und weicheren Flächen besteht.

Ich liste jetzt alle religiösen Wahn-Wahrnehmungen auf die mir in einer ‚schnellen’ Suche über den Weg gelaufen sind, inklusive einiger gefälschter, da es sicherlich jemanden gibt, der daran glaubt. Diese Sammlung ist auf keinen Fall allumfassend und ist stark in Richtung USA voreingenommen, vor allem weil die dortigen Medien diesen Fällen mehr Beachtung schenken. Vielleicht füge ich weitere Fälle an, wenn sie bekannt werden. Für’s erste habe ich aber genug von ihnen.

Date Place Who Description Material Category Texture
January 2008 Florida Jesus Bad potato again, infected by a Jesus on the cross. Potato Food possibly more fluffy
January 2008 Texas Virgin Mary Another pan-caked virgin. Pancake Food flowing
January 2008 Texas Jesus And again a potato is rotten because of Jesus. Potato Food picture too bad
February 2008 Colorado Jesus Jesus in tree log. Tree log Wood flowing
March 2008 Florida Jesus And he washes again, but leaves his face in a shower stain. “The family said they will never clean the spot and they now treat the shower like a shrine.” Ridiculous. Shower stain Dirt fluffy
March 2008 Texas Jesus Cheesy snack Jesus found. Cheesy Snack Food fluffy
March 2008 California Virgin Mary Palm Sunday palm tree branch brings out delusion of Virgin Mary. Palm tree branch Wood fluffy
April 2008 Ohio Jesus Jesus is seen in an Ultrasound of a pregnant woman Ultrasound Image fluffy
April 2008 Florida Jesus A face appears in a window of a hospital Window Light fluffy
April 2008 Florida Jesus Jesus can be sweet, too. He is in a piece of candy. Candy Food flowing
May 2008 UK Jesus On a bottle of beer, bug-eyed Foil on beer bottle Food fluffy
May 2008 Florida Jesus On tree in front of home. Bark Wood picture too bad
June 2008 Texas Jesus Jesus seen in a 1000 pounds granite slab. Granite Rock possibly more fluffy
June 2008 Florida Jesus And there is another Jesus in an uterus beside a baby. Ultrasound Image possibly more flowing
June 2008 Moldova Jesus Bright light on camera interpreted as Jesus. Light on camera Light flowing
July 2008 Indiana Jesus Jesus seen in the fur of a kitten that was abadoned by it’s mother Fur, Cat Pet fluffy
July 2008 Jesus Jesus “seen” in ice cream Ice cream Food not sure
July 2008 Texas Jesus Appears and gets a mustache on utility pole Wood and some dirt? Wood fluffy
July 2008 Texas Virgin Mary And another tree has been virginized. Bark Wood flowing
July 2008 Kansas Jesus This time he appears in a T-Shirt. (No, not in the print) T-Shirt Light I don’t see it
July 2008 Missouri Jesus Jesus likes Cheetos. Cheetos Snack Food fluffy
July 2008 California Virgin Mary Floor drain in restaurant is stage for Mary. Stain in sink Dirt flowing
July 2008 Indiana Jesus Small kitten as Jesus billboard. Fur, car Pet I don’t see it
July 2008 Florida Jesus Jesus on palm tree disappears when you approach it. A miracle! Palm tree bark Wood picture too bad
August 2008 Germany Jesus A cross founf inside a potato. One half was put for sale on eBay, but nobody wanted it. Potato Food possibly more fluffy
August 2008 California Jesus Christian Wonder Land in carpet store. First an angle in a glass window, then Jesus in a tree. Bark Wood unsure
August 2008 Phillipines Virgin Mary They have poor glass for furniture in the Philipines. Stained glass Glass flowing
January 2007 Texas Virgin Mary A sores freezer produced an ice-virgin. Ice, frozen water Other flowing
February 2007 Texas Virgin Mary Virgin in pizza pan at elementary school. Pizza pan, burned on stain Dirt flowing
February 2007 Idaho Virgin Mary Another rock virgin. Calcium deposit on rock Rock, Wall flowing
March 2007 California Virgin Mary This one is a really fat Virgin Mary in a potatoe. Potato Food flowing
April 2007 Tennessee Jesus Jesus portrait on a dog’s ear, but I don’t see anything. photo of dog Pet I don’t see it
May 2007 UK Jesus This one is so funny: “Jesus appears in Samsung Flash memory chip”. Flash memory chip, TEM image Image flowing
June 2007 Tennessee Jesus Jesus appeared in tree, nobody knows how he happend to end up in there. Bark Wood fluffy
June 2007 California Virgin Mary I can’t see it, but the Virgin Mary is supposed to be seen in a slice of watermelon. Watermelon Food I don’t see it
August 2007 Virginia Jesus A cyborg-Jesus in oil on the floor of a garage. This one actually sold for over 1,500$. Oil on concrete Floor, Dirt fluffy
August 2007 California Virgin Mary A hawaiian neclace in form of a turtle is supposed to show Mary. Shell Other flowing
August 2007 Conneticut Jesus On a wooden kitchen cabinet. Wooden kitchen cabinet Wood fluffy
September 2007 Pennsylvania Virgin Mary The Virgin is seen on a garage door in an alley. Including video. I can’t believe there are so many people went there to see a fucking reflection… Light reflected by window Light flowing and very blurry
September 2007 Texas Virgin Mary Sour Virgin Mary, she appears on a lemon slice. I can’t beliebve people take this seroius. Lemon slice Food fluffy
September 2007 Florida Both They are both in a tapestry at church. Shadows Light flowing
October 2007 New Zeeland Virgin Mary Money-making tiny pebble for sale too Virgin Mary believers. Pebble Rock flowing
November 2007 California Virgin Mary A burnt tree shows a (black) Virgin Mary Burned tree Wood possibly more flowing
November 2007 Florida Both Mother and son on a pancake, who wants to eat it afterwards? Pancake Food fluffy
December 2007 New Mexico Virgin Mary Virgin on a living room wall after bad paint job by husband. But come on, this picture has to be a joke. Paint Wall flowing
December 2007 Florida Jesus Jesus in your chest might create chest pains, but can be diagnoted via X-rays X-ray Image fluffy
December 2007 Arizona Jesus Jesus on one, George Washington on the other side of a stone. Stone Rock fluffy
January 2006 Florida Virgin Mary Virgin Mary is a sprots fan and thus appeared on a basketball backboard Peeling paint of basketball backboard Other fluffy
January 2006 Maine Virgin Mary Virgin Mary on a burnt wall Burnt brick wall Wall flowing
February 2006 Ohio Jesus Jesus on pancake increases it’s value Pancake Food fluffy
February 2006 Connetticut Jesus Sheet metal prices raise when a Jesus appears on it. Sheet metal Other possibly more flowing, very blurred
March 2006 Illinois Virgin Mary Virgin Mary homeless, now she has to sleep on pillar under a bridge Actually I don’t know, I can’t see it. Light flowing
March 2006 Wisconsin Virgin Mary Virgin mary almost burnt as firewood. Firewood Wood no picture found
April 2006 Columbia Jesus Hot chocolate overspill on mug. Hot chocolate on mug Food, Dirt fluffy
May 2006 Mexico Jesus Jesus on rock attracts pilgrims Rock Rock fluffy
August 2006 Pennsylvania Jesus MRI crucification MRI Image flowing
August 2006 UK Jesus Jesus above baby in the womb, seen in ultrasound Ultrasound Image fluffy
August 2006 California Jesus Jesus’ face on a shrimp tail. ER IST SICH FÜR NICHTS ZU SCHADE Shrimp Food picture too bad
August 2006 Florida Jesus Oyster shell with image of Jesus inside Oyster shell Food flowing
August 2006 California Virgin Mary In wood paneeling in a restaurant Paneling Wood flowing
August 2006 Missouri Virgin Mary Cooking hamburgers and using the left over grease as Idol Grill leftover grease in plastic drip pan Dirt flowing
August 2006 Illinois Virgin Mary On the underside of a turtle… It becomes more and more stupid as I finde more apperances. Shell, turtle Pet flowing
August 2006 California Virgin Mary Now in chocolate Chocolate Food fluffy
September 2006 Texas Jesus Light on an entryway floor illuses woman. She tells it to the press after almost three years. Light on floor Light possibly more flowing, very blurred
October 2006 California Jesus Another burned piece of food, the holy burrito. Burrito Food fluffy
November 2006 Arizona Both Holy family on gold nugget Gold nugget Other fluffy
December 2006 Texas Jesus Hard to imagine someone sees Jesus in this meteroid Meteroid Rock fluffy
December 2006 California Jesus Jesus is a couch-potateo Couch Other fluffy
January 2005 North Carolina Jesus Jesus seen in brick. Brick Wall fluffy
January 2005 Switzerland Jesus This time on the outside of an oister shell. Oyster shell Food fluffy
March 2005 Massachusetts Virgin Mary This time on a roasting pan Roast on pan Dirt fluffy
March 2005 Nebraska Both Pretzel mother and son Pretzel snack Food flowing
April 2005 Illinois Virgin Mary A salt stain in an motorway underpass becomes the Virgin Mary Salt stain on concrete Wall, Dirt flowing
May 2005 Texas Jesus Jesus looking out of a window. He is in the glass, actually. Window Glass flowing
May 2005 Texas Jesus Jesus in a little stone. Stone Rock no picture found
June 2005 Pennsylvania Jesus Plaster wall shower Jesus. Stain on plaster wall Wall, Dirt possibly more fluffy
June 2005 Michigan Jesus Jesus does not want to be covered ub in red paint. Red paint on wall Wall possibly more fluffy
June 2005 Florida Jesus Sour cream and onion potato christ. Potato Chip Food fluffy
August 2005 UK Jesus It’s only a tree! Tree Wood fluffy
October 2005 Oklahoma Jesus Ten year old (again!) fish bone bears Jesus. Fishbone Other flowing
November 2005 Ohio Jesus Pierogi Jesus, following the appearances of Jesus, I get to know food I never heard of before… Pierogi Food fluffy
November 2005 Texas Jesus Jesus forms in dirt on a truck Dirt on tailgate of truck Dirt fluffy
November 2005 Texas Virgin Mary Virgin Mary on a Tree Bark Wood fluffy
November 2005 Romania Jesus Jesus with company on a wooden wardrobe. Wooden wardrobe Wood fluffy
December 2005 Florida Jesus Jesus appears in mineral deposits in cooking pan at restaurant. Cooking pan and mineral deposit Dirt fluffy
April 2004 Jesus One of the bigges of them, Jesus in the Cone Nebula on an Hubble image. Interstellar star forming nebula Other fluffy
November 2004 Florida Virgin Mary The one that started the recent run on Jesus and Mary appearances. A ten year old toast is worth 28,000$, what wine would compete with it? Toast Food fluffy
November 2004 Ghana Jesus In a marble rock a church Marble Rock fluffy
December 2004 Arizona Jesus Dental-X-ray Jesus X-ray Image fluffy
January 2003 Australia Virgin Mary Shadow on a fence seen as Virgin Mary. Fence Light unsure
July 2003 Massachusetts Virgin Mary In window of a hospital Window Glass flowing
November 2003 New Jersey Virgin Mary In a tree stump Tree stump Wood fluffy
2003 Canada Jesus In a fish-stick Fish-stick Food fluffy
January 2002 Wisconsin Jesus Another tree, another Jesus Bark Wood fluffy
October 2000 Australia Jesus Jesus or the shadow of a tree? Shadow on wall Light, Wall fluffy
1996 Florida Virgin Mary Window effect Window Glass flowing
June 1993 California Virgin Mary On the bark of a tree. bark Wood fluffy
May 1991 Georgia Jesus Pizza Hut Pasta shows Jesus (or the flying spaghetty monster?). Photo of spaghetti lunch Food no picture found
1977 New Mexico Jesus One of the most fameous, the Jesus Tortilla including shrine. Tortilla Food fluffy
Jesus Jesus on the butt of a dog Fur, Dog Pet fluffy

Read Part III: The Analysis


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25 Antworten zu “Studie Christlicher Pareidolie (Teil II): Die Liste”
  1. Sire sagt:

    That is quite a list, and perhaps one day I will have the time to go through it all. It must have taken you a fair bit of time to put it together. I wonder why people insist on seeing likenesses to Jesus and such in all the case you present. Did any of them result in miracles at all?

    Sire´s last blog post: How To Deal With Rude And Obnoxious Commentators

  2. Marcel sagt:

    You’re right, it took about a day to collect it, but I was amazeb by how many I found in such a relatively short time. The only miracle I can think of that might result from these sightings is a pecuniary: The Virgin Mary toast sold for 28,000 Dollars!

  3. Sire sagt:

    I’m not sure that you would describe that as a miracle. More like foolhardiness.

    Sire´s last blog post: How To Deal With Rude And Obnoxious Commentators

  4. Marcel sagt:

    Well, I think believing in miracles is foolhardy, but it depends how you define miracle: either something that people can not explain (yet) or some real divine revelation.

  5. Sire sagt:

    To me it’s has to be some divine revelation.

    Sire´s last blog post: Wassup With The Link Directory? Why Not List Your Blog?

  6. Marcel sagt:

    Well, then they did not result in miracles :-).

  7. Sire sagt:

    Now, how did I know you were going to say that? ;)
    Sire´s last blog post: What Do You Do To Promote Trust From Your Readers?

  8. Football Academy sagt:

    What a fascinating study? I wonder if people from other faiths see similar visions. A Stumble for your efforts :)

  9. Laurensd sagt:

    Seeing these images say something about the people who see them. I don;t know if these images are of divine origin, however when you love God, then you are prone to form images in your brain.
    I started looking at solid wooden doors and patterns in ceramic floors. You will be surprised how much faces and things you will see.
    Then I tried to find a man on a bicicle. I found one in the third door. Try it, you will find aliens bears whatever you want to find. Maybe it is God who helps you see this images, so God forms them after all. This is what I believe.

  10. Marcel sagt:

    @ Laurensd: I agree that seeing these images tells a lot about the people who see them. But as you describe, if you try you can see whatever you want in some random structures. Our brain does it automatically, that’s how we identify things, but our brain can be fooled. I think it is used to identify things very fast without much (visual) information. That’s why it can see things in simple structures. So my opinion is that you don’t need to assume a god to explain these sighting, our brain makes them up for us.

  11. Richard Moorton sagt:

    I am a serious Catholic with an academic background who thinks that these “sightings” are insignificant. The rorschach principle explains almost all of them. Perhaps a few are highly realistic and detailed, but this can be attributed to chance working in the natural world. I’m not a liberal reductionist but I’m not a credulous simpleton, either. Christ in a flapjack or Mary in a gasoline stain? Spare me.

    Best,

    Richard Moorton

  12. Bella Jo sagt:

    You should try reviewing the many images appearing at Sylvan Springs in Rome City, IN. I just witnessed the miracle of the sun with several dozen other pilgrims. It was amazing and very inspirational! We had just finished praying for the problems at Notre Dame to end with Fr. Jenkins witdrawing his invitation to our President. It is a tragedy that Fr. Jenkins and his liberal friends have so willingly sold-out the values, morals, and fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church. Obama needs Notre Dame more than Notre Dame needs Obama. I hope the benefactors will direct their monetary gifts this year to a truly Catholic cause by visiting http://www.oltiv.org and supporting the Our Lady of America devotion by helping to preserve the beautiful chapels and grounds where these apparitions took place in 1956. It is actually only 45 miles from the Notre Dame campus.

    Heed Our Lady’s call to purity. Read the messages and warnings of Our Lady of America at http://www.oltiv.org

  13. Marcel sagt:

    @Richard Moorton: I’m happy to hear that there are Catholics that disagree with these sightings.
    @Bella Jo: Looks like your comment is some kind of catholic spam. And I really don’t understand what this “miracle of the sun” is all about, the text on this site isn’t telling much. Staring in the sun for minutes will definitely make you see strange things and feel dizzy. The only miracle involved can be that you are not blinded forever :-) . BTW: Is that website trying to sell “the magic place”?

  14. Richard Moorton sagt:

    I don’t want to give the impression that I view all purported supernatural manifestations as bogus. The most difficult to dismiss, in my view, is the apparition of Mary at Zeitun, Egypt, from 1968-1970. It appeared repeatedly, was witnessed by millions, broadcast on Egyptian T.V., reported in the N.Y. Times, and as far as I know was never decisively debunked. There are numerous references on the web. For a good starting point, try this one:

    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/vmary.htm

    Playing devil’s advocate, I have wracked my brain trying to think how this could have been faked (the photographic evidence–quite extensive–proves that it was not merely mental). The fact that the image moved from spire to spire, and changed position in a human-like way, makes simple projection hard to credit. It looks like a hologram, but I don’t think that holographic technology was sufficiently developed at that time (or now) to duplicate this phenomenon. Skeptics crawled all over it, but were hard pressed to explain it away. Until I see evidence that the technology of the day could have faked this, I feel justified in considering the possibility that it was a genuine apparition of Mary.

    Best,

    Richard Moorton

  15. Sire sagt:

    Just to show how randomly these so called apparitions can appear, I was taking a lot of random shots of splashes caused by drops of water and one of the shots was really quite remarkable. I’m sure if a religious zealot came across this shot they would call it a holy apparition of one sort or another.

    Sire´s last blog post: There Is No Way In Hell That A Man Can Please A Woman

  16. Bella Jo sagt:

    Marcel-

    I’m just trying to spread the devotion. The owners need help and are looking for Catholics to help them move it into Non-profit ownership. They are not looking to profit.

    One of the best sites I’ve found for this devotion is http://www.oltiv.org.

    It is in NE Indiana and is easy to get to. You should take a visit and see the facts for yourself.

    BTW: The miracle of the sun was witnessed by 80,000 people at Fatima, Portugal. It was one of the major factors in the Church declaring the Fatima apparitions approved. Some things cannot be explained by scientific skepticism. It’s what makes it so “miraculous”.

  17. Marcel sagt:

    First, to all of you: Thanks for your comments.

    @ Richard Moorton: Too bad you did not want to give that impression :-) . The problem with those decades old apparitions is, that we can not analyse them in enought detail. I agree that people probably saw something, so the photos are probably not faked. But the question is what did they see. I think possible explanations include sort of a conspiracy or some kind of light effect, like a reflection that occurs only from time to time, maybe a nearby window that only reflects like this when in some special position. But this is speculation. Maybe one starting point to look for an explanation would be to find out when and then why the effect stopped. What else did change at that time? Where there some constructon works nearby, or did somebody move away/die in the neighborhood? And then it has to be checked if these correlations could be causal.

    @ Sire: That’s a funny photo and a good illustration that it only needs many random structures and an some attention to discover something. Too bad you can not sell the splash to some zealot :-) .

    @ Bella Jo: Hm, you don’t stop it. Even if it is non-profit, it looks like spam to me. Because there is not much correlation with the post’s topic. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun) there are several possible explanations for this “Miracle of the Sun”. But as these “miracles” usually happend many years ago, it is hard to find an explanation everyone accepts.

  18. Mad Dog sagt:

    For more, including some more recent than those on this list (and photos!) check out http://www.whatwouldjesussee.com.

  19. Richard Moorton sagt:

    Marcel,

    Your reasonings are indeed speculative and do not compel assent. This is materialism in the gaps (abg, or “anything but God”), and as we know, such reasoning is not strong. The evidence is sufficiently robust here to require specific refutation, not maybe this, maybe that. I can agree that a case like this need not compel assent in a skeptic, but it is rightly taken as consistent with and even supportive of a supernaturalist position.

    It seems the apparitions stopped when the Egyptian government got the idea of charging tickets for access to the site to view the phenomenon. Apparently Mary prefers not to be vended. If the site below is to be trusted (it is biased, but the info could be independently checked), the apparitions have come back with little fanfare.

    http://www.medjugorjeusa.org/zeitoun.htm

    As for the miracle of the sun, I take it seriously, and think that there is substantial evidence for it having occurred at Fatima, but there are reasonable grounds for doubt and I think that here the skeptics have a respectable case. It’s not the only case, and believers can make reasonable counter arguments, but imho neither acceptance nor disbelief is risible.

    Best,

    Richard Moorton

  20. Sire sagt:

    Hey Marcel, maybe I could if I marketed it properly, but that would be so dishonest.

    Sire´s last blog post: Rewarding Top 10 Members Of Cool Blog Links

  21. Bella Jo sagt:

    Marcel,

    I don’t know if anything I could say would convince you. After all, you are referencing Wikipedia!

    You need to prove it to yourself. The question is: “How hard are you really willing to work to find the answer?”

    You should go to Sylvan Springs in Rome City on a sunny Friday afternoon for the rosary. It may change your perspective on a lot of things!

    P.S. i think a lot of your “examples” are taken from sources like The National Enquirer. try looking at the Marian apparitions resource library at the University of Dayton.

  22. Mike T. sagt:

    I’m a serious Catholic. I see nothing wrong or strange for people to spot images that are a reflection of beliefs they hold deeply within themselves. I think, mainly these observations are an affirmation of the faith these people have and is pretty harmless. These ’sightings’ are somehow very annoying to others, and this would include this blogger in particular. In which case, I see no positive element at all for this blogger to beat himself up about this phenom he finds so annoying. The blogger would do himself a great favor if he focused his intellect and powers of observation on something else other than other peoples’ faith he so derides.

  23. Marcel sagt:

    As I’m focusing most of my intellect and powers of observations on other things than this blog, it took me some time to answer your comments ;-) .
    Of cause I can do other things with my time, but I’ve decided to spread some reason with my blog (in addition to presenting my photography). Thus, I deem it important to show that there are many possible explanations for those alleged apparitions. There is no good reason to postulate a spiritual, transcendental origin.
    I know that I will not convince those of you that have a strong opinion on this. I don’t even want to change you, you have every right to believe in whatever you want. My point is to state that from a scientific stand, there is no need for the supernatural.

    @ Mad Dog:
    Great work, maybe I can include some of the more recent ones when I find the time.

    @ Richard Moorton:
    I don’t intend to deliver the one and only rational explanation of this Egypt Mary. I don’t have the time nor the interest to analyze this in detail. Especially as these events have stopped such a long time ago and I’m sure most of the evidence since then has vanished and reports mixed with anecdotes and myth. You will have to agree that most inquiries were performed by people from the church (like … in case of the “Miracle of the Sun”), they have to be considered biased. As said, I intend to show up *possible* other explanations.
    The underlying question is a more fundamental one: Even if I succeed to refute this event, somebody will come up with another one. It’s like UFO sightings: We know they are bogus, but do we care to proof this for every single one? I don’t want to write the beginning chapter to a never ending story. You are right: It is consistent with a supernaturalist position. The problem: Everything is consistent with a supernaturalist position, even and especially without any further inquiry. There always is the possibility to postulate an intervention by god or the flying spaghetti monster. But this doesn’t explain anything so science has to reject it.
    To sum up: We will most probably never come to the same conclusion. Similar to what you said for the “Miracle of the sun” case: Skeptics have enough grounds for doubt, but believers can always come up with counter-arguments, at least with ones based on their set of believes.

    @ Sire:
    I wouldn’t do it either (see below). But if you could create more of them they would make a very nice exhibition I think. “The water people” or something :-)

    @ Bella Jo:
    How do you conclude from my reference to Wikipedia to the fact that what you say will not convince me?
    We all have to prove our opinions to ourself and shouldn’t believe in dogma without questioning. Accepting the scientific method usually excludes supernatural believes. Thus it would not help much if I were to visit this place. It would be interesting to meet some people there that had this experience, though, as I’m a curious person.
    But thanks for the hint to the Marian apparitions resource library, maybe I check that out.

    @ Mike T.:
    Just call me Marcel, “this blogger” sounds strange, don’t you think? Gives the impression that you are not willing to talk to me, but only about me. Even if we have different opinions we still can be on friendly terms.
    Unless the people that observe those “sightings” urge or even force others to see and believe the same, I agree that they are pretty harmless. There are exceptions: Those that make money out of it sail close to the wind, I personally think what they do is fraud.
    Still, I have to disagree with you: These sightings don’t really annoy me, they are merely funny in a large part. And very interesting because they tell a lot about the people that “discover” them. So I don’t beat me up about this. I’ve collected the list to perform an analysis of the sightings, with rather interesting results that confirmed my first impression (see part III: http://8minutesold.com/?p=60).

  24. Sire sagt:

    “The Water People?” Man, that could only happen with divine inspiration, and I reckon He has more important things to worry about.

    Sire´s last blog post: Getting The Most From Your Ad Space

  25. Marcel sagt:

    Just for those who wonder what these “Miracles of the Sun” lead to: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/05/10/and-the-blind-shall-see/

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